"Which is it? Have you used it or not? "
I've not used it. Never said I have, therefore have not contradicted myself. That doesn't mean I've not explored the Zope site, haven't looked at examples, or am totally clueless about how Zope works.
I've never used mySQL, either, but I have a pretty good understanding of how it works. Better than many of its users, judging by the arguments those who live in that religious space make to justify the lack of ACIDity, etc, that make it so weak.
"I don't particularly like UML-style models that also serve as conclusive documentation. It's way too much work for
the average person to ingest. This is an example of the kind of thing we need to fix. "
One thing we can agree on, at least.
As far as the rest of your answer, it's a non-answer. Your attitude's strange, I have no problem being objectively critical about the ACS. A tool's strengths and weaknesses are generally fairly obvious to those who work with them. I have a difficult time understanding why you can't spit forth a paragraph or two which objectively describes the strengths and/or weaknesses of the Zope approach. You've found plenty of time to make statements that are irrelevant ("these guys I work with are really smart!") or religious. You really can't take ten minutes to make a clear and concise statement of Zope's benefits? Perhaps the philosopher wears no clothes?
There are undoubtably areas in which Zope does a better job than the ACS (since the ACS undeniably sucks in some areas). One Zope user has deflated one of my expectations in this regard, though:
"In my mind what complicates Zope is the unclear line between what is core and what is added or built upon the
core. Or in this context what is the framework or what is built on it. There is not a clear delineation of what source
(code) or knowledge one has to understand or have in order to fix, modify or extend certain parts of Zope. This
also extends into simple usage of Zope. "
Quoted from an earlier post. I have to admit I read this with great disappointment, because this is precisely the area where I'd expect Zope to provide an example worth studying. It is an area where the ACS truly sucks, and where repair work is needed.
So, if Zope doesn't provide a good example in this area, where does Zope provide good examples? What shines in the design?
