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Forum OpenACS Q&A: Project name ...

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Posted by Don Baccus on
At the risk of coming across as being cold-hearted and self-serving ...

The demise of aD means that many of my concerns about our name
(confusion with aD ACS version numbering, Java vs. Tcl, all that) has
gone away.

This means that a simple change like "OpenACS - the Open Architecture
Community System" is viable, perhaps.

What do people think?  Can we simplify our life and just forget about
naming issues now?

And in case anyone has any doubts, I am saddened to hear that aD is
coming to an end.

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Posted by David Kuczek on
I really like the name OpenACS... So Architecutre instead of ArsDigita would be okay with me :-) (But maybe we could even get rid of the "a" and call it OpenCS)

Would the new OpenACS be called OpenACS 4.0 then?

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Posted by Jade Rubick on
I don't mind OpenACS, but I think a lot of the conversation we were having on the naming thread is still pretty valid. If we decide to keep that, I think we should make up a pronunciation. For example:
  • OpenACS = "open ax"
  • OpenACS = "open X"
  • OACS = "ox"
  • OACS = "oaks"
  • OACS = "oasis"
  • OACSup = "wassup"
  • OACSyurprob = "what's your problem?"
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Posted by Kjell Wooding on
Your suggestion seems good, Don, or drop the A entirely, and go with
the OCS (Oh-See-Ess. Rolls off the tongue nicely).
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Posted by Torben Brosten on
Is it too early to tell what will become of aD's ACS?

I agree in principle with Don's statements about keeping OpenACS (and disheartened at aD's ending and the lay-offs), but I'm not certain of what will become of aD resources. Perhaps one of the new companies may acquire ACS and use it as is?

Also, how will this impact the aduni.org project with it's streaming seminar resources?  Will the contract for the year's serving be fulfilled etc?

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Posted by Don Baccus on
The nit-picky problem with OCS or OpenCS is that while our architecture and our own code is open, we support non-open components in that architecture, i.e. Oracle.  Maybe that's too nitpicky, I don't know.

Plus ... "ACS" does carry at least some recognition and I'm thinking we might as well take advantage now that there's no danger of confusion.

My sources tell me the purchaser will be scrapping ACS Java and since ACS Tcl was previously scrapped I'm assuming that means the ACS goes away in their eyes.  I could be wrong.  Even if they keep it I'd expect them to rebrand it, but again could be wrong.

I don't know about aduni but that's a good question.

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Posted by Kjell Wooding on
I must admit. If the rumours are true, it seems a little odd to both
scrap the technology, and lay off the employees. Why bother buying it
at all then?

But alas, this is probably not the right forum for that type of
speculation.

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Posted by Don Baccus on
Sources are reputed to include at least one dog owner, along with various ex-aDers so ... yeah, weird or not, the spin seems likely to be accurate.
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Posted by David Kuczek on
Concerning aduni stuff... Chris Crick (chriscrick@post.harvard.edu) told me:

"We do offer the option of getting all 80 GB of lectures, notes, problem sets, exams and solutions on an actual physical hard drive, if that interests you, for $220 including shipping."

Maybe somebody wants to mirror the content...

I heard that the German aD office is profitable and has around 30 employees. I can't imagine that somebody would want to lay of profitable programmers.

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Posted by Mohan Pakkurti on
Hi Don and all!

It might not be so important to address the issue right now, since
the name OpenACS has some recognition in the world, as a good toolkit,
and it might not be prudent to rebrand.

There is already the task sometimes of explaining about the Tcl
version, the Java version, acs 3.x, acs 4.x etc etc. So, why invite
more questions with another name change. Like you suggest we can
have a simple change and call it "Open Architecture...".

Nice to be back. cheers.

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Posted by Jamie Ross on
I agree with Don, I think OpenACS (Open Architecture Community System) is the best way to go.  People already know the name and why confuse anyone.. also might help pick up from people who were using aD ACS and want to continue in the same vein.

I picked up a copy of the aD Uni courses and I will be putting it online at http://projects.kinetx.com sometime in the near future (we have a 780KB/sec piece of a T1). Anyone have any suggestions on Linux streaming software so people?  Also we are looking at buring individual course on DVD's (about 2 per course) and distributing them at a reasonable cost (cover the cost and a fee to support ADuni efforts).

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Posted by Adam Farkas on
Jamie --

DVDs would be cool.  In addition,  i think it would be even more interesting if everyone who is interested in the aD uni material  downloads a complete copy from you, and sets up morpheus on their machine.

Morpheus is an interesting P2P client because it does shotgun file transfers -- so a person can draw the material from multiple simulateneous hosts.  If enough people mirror the content with morpheus, downloads will be quick, even if the individual hosts only have DSL lines. And you'll save on bandwidth costs.

This would be perhaps the only legitimate use yet devised for morpheus :-)

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Posted by Andrew Lahser on
Perhaps Don, you should do nothing just yet. Unused trademarks become unenforceable quickly; if I recall correctly, it's one year. So at this time next year, just call the project ACS -- Arsdigita Community System, and leverage all the branding of the Arsdigita name.

Of course, this only works if the buying company is really not interested in, and ignores, the Arsdigita brand.

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Posted by Adam Farkas on
"Of course, this only works if the buying company is really not interested in, and ignores, the Arsdigita brand."

take a look at http://www.akopia.com , which was an ecommerce package that was bought by a certain linux company.

The brand name died, but the acquirerer kept the domain & just redirects to their site.  So.. even though the Akopia name isn't being used, you can't really name another product Akopia without generating confusion.

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Posted by Mat Kovach on
regardign the aduni stuff also:

Would it be work to do something like qmail.org does ?  Create a central mirrors site that points to other mirrors sites to it?

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16: ADUni mirroring (response to 1)
Posted by Jamie Ross on
I like the idea of a mirroring network to support distribution of ADuni material. For those interested in obtaining a copy see

http://www.aduni.org/FAQ/

Morpheus is a proprietary Windows app last I looked, is the something else OpenSource we could use to develop a distrbuted network cuz the idea is great!
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Posted by Daryl Biberdorf on

At the risk of coming across as being cold-hearted and self-serving ...

Hey, from the sound of things (and I'm VERY far away from the sources), it sound like it's already a done deal.

In many ways this is a good thing for OpenACS, in that another competitor (a high-profile one, at that), looks to be going away. It remains to be seen whether any continuing work would be done on the ACS toolkit. However, based on the rumors, the answer looks to be "no". In that case, there's one fewer actively maintained open source collaboration system. OpenACS is a strong competitor, and it has done well on its own. We'll probably see a pick-up in interest in this project.

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Posted by Adam Farkas on
" Morpheus is a proprietary Windows app last I looked, is the something else OpenSource we could use to develop a distrbuted network cuz the idea is great! "

AFAIK, Gnucleus, the GPL'd implementation of Gnutella, can also do shotgunning.  But i'm not 100% sure.

The capability to shotgun downloads is critical for this type of project, since the bandwidth needs are so huge.

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Posted by C. R. Oldham on
re: Morpheus

Our local cable internet provider is blocking the ports Morpheus uses.  They say it is because of confusion over possible copyright violations, but I heard from a tech it was because 2% of the cable internet subscribers were using 80% of their available bandwidth.

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Posted by Jade Rubick on
Honestly, I think the name OpenACS kind of sucks. I'm happy to keep it, but compare it to a name like Zope and it just doesn't have the memorability. It's a bleeping bunch of letters!

Compare OpenNSD to Apache. Which sounds better to you?

ACS was never a good name, and adding open to it doesn't make it any better.

If we decide to keep it, that's fine. Perhaps that's necessary for historical reasons. But I think if we were to rename it in a way that also ties into the past, we'd be doing ourselves a favor in the long term.

I personally really like "Wassup" :)

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Posted by Don Baccus on
Just say "nope!" to Zope! ...

Catchy names do have their drawbacks...we should feature that slogan somewhere on our website, shouldn't we?

Seriously, I don't think anyone really likes the name that much, "ACS" isn't the catchiest thing in the world.  "OACS" pronounced "Oaks" is actually an improvement IMO.

We could remain the "OpenACS" project (since openacs.org is somewhat known these days) with the "OACS 4.2" release ...

Great?  Nope (or do I mean Zope?)  Tolerable?  I don't know, you tell me!

As I said last night (I think it was me, but maybe it was the beer) this whole naming issue's been a bit of a thorn in my side all along.

I'd like to put it to rest now that aD has been put to rest.

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Posted by Jade Rubick on
Perhaps we can leave it as OpenACS. That seems simplest anyway.

But I'm going to start calling it "oaks". I never really liked that very much either, but it is memorable, it is better, and it makes some sense.

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Posted by Kjell Wooding on
Since there's no fear of confusion anymore, OACS, OpenACS, "Oaks", even ACS can all refer to the same codebase...

So hello Open Architecture Community System users! Sounds like most of us missed a good party last night!

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Posted by Don Baccus on
I should've said "no beer until one of you comes up with a rip-roaring, unforgetable name that everyone will fall in love with".

With that kind of pressure I probably would've seen results!  Or a mob of sullen, sober, pissed-off OpenACS hackers :)

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Posted by Mat Kovach on
I should've said "no beer until one of you comes up with a rip-roaring, unforgetable name that everyone will fall in love with".

Don't even scare us like that! :-)

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Posted by Tom Jackson on

Argh, will someone choose before I go crazy?! Okay, I always start by what .com or .org is available. Here is a new list having nothing to do with current suggestions:

  • Sesamus (.com .org) -- I was thinking of (open) sesame, but less me, more us.
  • Sarmong (.com .org) -- ancient esoteric brotherhood.
  • Simplime (.org) -- Simp limb e ??
  • Simpleme (.org) -- Simple me
  • Simplemus (.com .org) us not me.
  • Simplema and Simplemma (.com .org) one short other mathematical.
  • Archtemus (.com .org) Has architecture root and team and us, well:
  • Archteamus (.com .org) the Architecture will make a Team out of Us. Sounds ancient. rhymes with A-C-S.

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Posted by Michael Feldstein on
I'm all for keeping OpenACS now, whether it stands for Open
Architecture Community System, Open AOLServer Community
System, Open After Christmas, Silly, or whatever.
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Posted by Marshall Trammell,III on
Has anyone thought about assuming the Arsdigita name itself?
<p>
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Posted by Alan Pater on
AOACS
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Posted by MaineBob OConnor on

This is for those that come across this thread and are not aware that a poll is in progress. Vote Now!

POLL

The thread about the polls is HERE.

-Bob