Forum .LRN Q&A: <rant>Interface = life or death

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Posted by Michael Feldstein on
Hi gang.

It's been a while since I've posted to these boards. I started a new company, am selling my house, got busy, blah, blah, blah. Is that really why I haven't been posting (or reading) here?

I don't think so.

The trouble started with the implementation of the new OpenACS.org web site. Specifically, the forums (or "fora," if you want to be pedantic about pluralizing your Latin words) no longer support a view that shows me new posts on old threads. If I want to see which old threads are live again, you have to click through the fora, page by page. Now, I very much doubt that I would have done so under any circumstances, but as it turns out I spend about half my week in the Catskills where I have only a slow dial-up connection. It's just too painful for me to click through in order to keep up with the various threads. My attention to OpenACS.org immediately dropped through the floor.

To make matters worse, when I killed my old email address due to an overabundance of spam, I realized that I would have to create an entirely new profile on the site in order to keep receiving email alerts. Over my slow dial-up connection. Never mind the time required; I was annoyed. I should not have to create a whole new profile (and lose my entire membership history and therefore the record of my reputation in the community in the process) just because I changed my email address. Maybe that was an OK compromise in 1995, but it doesn't cut it in 2003.

OK, grumble grumble. So I posted today. Why today? Is it because Janine Sisk happened to ping me yesterday? That's probably part of it, but it wasn't enough by itself.

What happened was I updated my RSS client. The latest version of NetNewsWire (which, by the way, changed my life) now shows editing marks to note what is changed when a post is updated. Now, I subscribe to the OpenACS fora RSS feed, but it doesn't provide a whole lot of information. Basically, it gives me a headline, a timestamp, and an author name. Usually not enough to keep me checking a thread (especially when my email alerts are broken and I'm to lazy/pissed off to fix my profile). However, NetNewsWire now tells me when follow-ups have been posted to a thread by updating my timestamp. So now, when I saw a thread about Google and RSS, (a topic that happens to interest me), I knew whenever a new post went up because NetNewsWire updated the time stamp and marked the post has changed. Very cool. Suddenly, I'm back in the conversation.

Note that I am not any less busy than I was when I dropped out of the conversation. If anything, I am busier. I am writing this now when I should be working on a very important document for a client that could mean a huge amount of business for my new company. No, the difference is about how our perceptual systems are wired. OpenACS.org got my attention through my newly improved RSS interface. I was going to have a difficult time getting on with my work until I cleared this distraction from my mind by doing something about it. When the interface made it an effort for me to keep up with the conversation, I didn't. Now that the conversation comes to me again (or, at least, comes closer), I have a harder time ignoring stimulating posts.

OK, so why am I posting this rant to the .LRN bboard instead of the OpenACS bboard? Is it just because I am personally fond of the .LRN project?

Nope.

It's because most learners (even the ones taking courses for credit) have attention spans and usage profiles similar to mine. Hard data has shown again and again that the razor's edge that marks the difference between a successful distance learning course and a failure is the degree to which you engage the learners. I don't care how many features you add to dotLRN; as long as the bboard interface is weak, you will have many unhappy instructors and disengaged students. They may not be able to articulate why they are disaffected, but I guarantee that you will see many cases of malaise caused by a poor interface. It's like trying to pay attention in class when the heating blower is blasting noise and hot air into your face.

I would further argue that Open Source communities probably share some of these characteristics. Beyond the hard-core people at the center of the project, talented people come and go. They may work on the edges, but they can sometimes make a difference around whether your project has critical mass or when their particular areas of expertise happen to be needed at a particular moment.

One of the things that Phil G did right was make the conversation at photo.net extremely easy to follow--which, by extension, makes it harder to ignore. OpenACS and dotLRN both could benefit by returning to these lessons. Adding back in the old stuff as well as a couple of enhancements (like including the the first paragraph of the post in the RSS feed) would have a disproportionate impact on mindshare by making it easier for people to join and stay in the conversation.

</rant>

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Posted by Michael Feldstein on
Okay, <rant> again.

I challenge the community to the following test:

Somebody should write a simple bit of code that graphs the number of posts on a week-by-week basis for all OpenACS.org members. I'd bet you will see a significant drop in the number of posts correlated with the date that the new bboard interface went online. Worse, I bet you will see a strong correlation with particular users who dropped out of the conversation entirely.

</rant>

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Posted by Dave Bauer on
Michael,

Thanks for posting.

The forums interface has been updated. It now shows the posts in order of last reply, not order of first posting.

So when an old thread has a new reply, it pops up to the top of the list.

You can change your email address for your profile at any time. There was a temporary glitch when people changed their email addresses in between the site migration. Not too many people were concerned so noone volunteered to fix the few people who were affected.

Sure we can do more. Thanks for your comments!

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Posted by Dave Bauer on
Michael,

Where is the OpenACS forums RSS feed?

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Posted by Michael Feldstein on

The forums interface has been updated. It now shows the posts in order of last reply, not order of first posting.

So when an old thread has a new reply, it pops up to the top of the list.

You can change your email address for your profile at any time. There was a temporary glitch when people changed their email addresses in between the site migration. Not too many people were concerned so noone volunteered to fix the few people who were affected.

Boy, is my face red. Yeesh.

The RSS feed is actually hosted by Jerry Asher: http://www.theashergroup.com/demos/rss/openacs-

I have to say, RSS has made a huge difference for me. Now that there are so many more regularly updated web sites that I like to monitor (news feeds, bboards, weblogs, etc.), RSS has made it possible for me to keep up with many, many sites without unduly disrupting my work day. Doing this right and building it into OpenACS would be a big win.

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Posted by Dave Bauer on
Michael

:) No problem. I did not publicize it too much, noone seemed to notice.

I definitely want to get RSS working with forums. There is already an RSS feed for CVS commits that I find very useful.

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Posted by Carl Robert Blesius on
It is nice to have you back Michael.

This is a good place for the post, because after meeting a few of the hard core OpenACS developers I have noticed that most of them have forum notifications set to instant. They are keeping track of the conversation in their heads, which is probably why the problem is still outstanding.

Thanks for mentioning the forums feed, it gives a good feel for what you are talking about.

Here is the correct address for others interested in trying it out:
http://www.theashergroup.com/demos/rss/openacs-forums.1.00.xml
or
http://www.theashergroup.com/demos/rss/openacs-forums.0.91.xml
(Thanks Jerry)

Dave,
I noticed your changes immediately. Thank you. They are a step in the right direction, but not perfect (yet). What we need is a filter similar to what exists in the logger interface, but with a memory of what you set it to last and what you have already looked at. This is a priority for Heidelberg too, so I hope we can address the most important parts before OpenACS 5.0.