Forum OpenACS Q&A: Forums Dynamic Threading UI Demo

Collapse
Posted by Dave Bauer on
Please check out the dynamic thread work Jeff Davis started for forums merged with OpenACS 5.1.3 running on the OpenACS.org development server.

http://angora.furfly.net/forums/

In addition this is running the performance improvements that Don worked on which are also available on this site and checked into oacs-5-1 branch of CVS.

Please discuss your thoughts on the user interface. I am also going to do some work on cleaning up the user interface to allow stlying with CSS which I will announce when it is ready for demo.

Collapse
Posted by Malte Sussdorff on
Yippie! Can you upload this new forum somewhere, I (and most of my clients) like it very much, especially as you can switch back any time you want to a different view.

Now some enhancement suggestions:

- Views. Add the number of views to each posting.
- Color Code the red arrow. The more reddish it is, the more content is hidden beneath it.
- Allow Color Coding to change. E.g. have it display the number of views in green (the greener the more often the thread has been viewed).
- Add sticky postings (postings that will always come first).
- Add favourites (one link click) which will add this thread to your favourites (for faster access at a later stage).
- Show the number of postings by a user right next to the user to display how active he is. Maybe even add categories for this (e.g. 0-5 postings = newbie, 100-200 postings=experienced, >500 postings: don baccus 😊).
- Allow for override of the list.css and especially the color coding within a thread.
- Highlight search terms within the thread (like Google cache).

Obviously Rating and Linking would come in handy, but this is 5.2 stuff anyway (and done in there...).

Collapse
Posted by Deds Castillo on
Dave,

Note that when I did this for concord, I assumed that the forums were declared as "threaded" in the presentation format, otherwise it tries to nest a flat in some cases. 😊 (not really broken code, but logically it is) I think that should be factored into the code in the final stage. Also when I discussed this with Jeff way back, dynamic minimal should ideally have a query that only fetches the relevant info and not the entire content and would be beneficial for very large forums. Then the entire content fetched using the messages-get file that I made.

Testing on angora, minimal display barfs with an error on attachments and format fields for the message.

Collapse
Posted by Randy O'Meara on
Looks very cool. I would like to see the post's author at the top of each posting rather than the bottom.
Collapse
Posted by Jade Rubick on
I seem to be unable to change the display mode (using Safari on Mac OS X).

Also, the postings seem to be really crunched together..

Collapse
Posted by Deirdre Kane on
Dave,

In April of this year, the UAB finalized a set of recommendations for improving forums and publicized that work and Tracy posted our results: https://openacs.org/forums/message-view?message_id=177680

Of those 11 items, we selected 1, 3, 5, 8 and 9 as the most important. We didn't elaborate upon this with use cases, though we intended to do so if they were called for.

When working on the Concord project, I had the chance to use the new forums and though I was pleased, I noticed that many UAB recommendations were not implemented. Threading and display choices have significantly been improved with the work that has been done, but other defined needs were not addressed (such as: moving threads, sorting, flagging new). Are there plans to make further UI/usability changes along the lines of what the UAB explored?

DeeDee

Collapse
Posted by Dave Bauer on
DeeDee

Thank you for bringing this up. You are absolutely correct that we need to address basic missing features in forums in addition to user interface improvements. I can't guarantee I will be able to add these things but we should make sure everyone is aware of the issues and try to find a volunteer to work on these items.

Collapse
Posted by Michael Feldstein on
I very much like the enhancements to the flat UI. I can see that we all have learned a trick or two from blog interfaces.

However, I think there is a deep and fundamental flaw in the thread view (and every other thread view implementation I have seen anywhere so far). Basically, users who don't have the data model of threading (which is really branching) in their heads are encouraged by the UI to mis-use the "reply" button with the result that you end up with unnecessarily deep branching most of the time.

The root of the problem is the question of what the users are replying to. Are they replying to the post or the conversation as a whole? In most cases, users mean to do the latter. But in order to do so in most threading interfaces (including this one), they have to scroll up to the top of the page and reply to the parent of the thread. This is both counter-intuitive and more work that should be required of the most likely user intention. In contrast, replying to the particular post, which corresponds to branching in the data model and is analogous to starting a tangent in a conversation, is the easiest thing for a user to do. This is bad, bad, bad.

If you must enable branching in a discussion thread (and frankly, I think the feature is useless at best in the majority of conversational circumstances), then the right thing to do in the UI is to have two reply buttons on every post. One, the obvious default, is essentially a "reply to conversation" button and has the effect of replying to the parent of the thread. The other, an obvious non-default, should be called something like "start a tangent" and has the effect of replying to the post and creating a branch.

If you're curious, I blogged about this topic in more detail in the context of a critique of Sakai's discussion board UI: http://mfeldstein.com/index.php/weblog/whats_wrong_with_the_sakai_user_interface/.

Also, as a side note, the radio button interface for switching UIs appears to be broken in Safari.

Collapse
Posted by xx xx on
Thanks Michael.

Often, I find myself "choosing" which reply button to use. It is at least a UI problem, with some similarity to Ben's post (https://openacs.org/forums/message-view?message_id=247645).

"Reply to conversation" and "Side note" would do for me, where the Alt-tekst of "Side note" would be "New thread, but relevant to conversation" and the reply would not be visible at the standard thread level.

Having to click to another thread level to see a "Side note" would feel like listening (on the side) to what two individuals are saying to each other in a conversation.

"Side notes" can easily become new threads... which is probably not what you want from a developers point of view, but this is what happens in real conversations. So maybe "Side note" should really be a new thread (with a parent), but with a clear new title.

Collapse
Posted by Mark Aufflick on
I mostly agree with Michael, but I think one of the benefits of this sort of view for busy sites is the ability to have a slashdot-like view that shows only a certain depth of replies.

While it's true that people need to be discipled about where they reply, it also allows a sub-topic to become it's own thread if there's enough interest. There could even be UI to allow a thread to be "front-paged" to use a perlmonks-ism.

I have to say though, that one of the things that endeared me to Phil's site and arsdigita.com was the flat time-linear comment and forum layout. I still find it one of the best styles, and it takes a huge volume (like slash dot) for a threaded style to beat it in my opinion.