Forum .LRN Q&A: New package Selva

37: New package Selva (response to 1)

Posted by Jeremy Monnet on 08/04/05 03:41 AM

http://jmonnet80.free.fr/Selva/theme-selva-0.3d.tgz
This package is quite big (10M) because I added the pictures in the doc, as Rafael requested.

The page courses has been added, the tabs are highlighted for their own url.

I have another question for the xml info file :
We can set parameters with it (the parameters are set for the installation of the package I think. What happens when we uninstall the package ? Should we take care of the parameters manually (in the sql drop file), or is there a sort of history, and the parameter falls back to its previous value ?

Jeremy

38: Re: New package Selva (response to 37)

Posted by Malte Sussdorff on 08/04/05 09:33 AM

Jeremy, let me apologize in advance for the upcoming sarcasm, but as you apparently had no look at the code provided by us before you implemented the changes I think it is fully justified.

- You created a subnavbar navigation helper procedure. So much so good. Sadly you didn't bother to take our parameters driven subnavbar stuff, so it is IMPOSSIBLE for an administrator of the site to add additional subnavbars.
- Your Procedure is not I18N
- You make multiple elseif statements depending on the URL to set the active URL. I'm not sure if you know, but this can be achieved in a one liner, especially if you use the parameter driven code 😊.

- It is impossible to see in which community you are, unless I missed something in the code. We added this functionality by dynamically adding a tab for the current community on the left so you immediately see which community you are in.

- Minor issues: Your .info file is broken (you won't be able to upgrade due to a not changed URL).

Cooperation and coordination in the OpenACS community works by both sides looking at the respective changes, otherwise a fork is inevitable. I like the work you've done and think it has potential, but it is missing some crucial parts.

39: Re: Re: New package Selva (response to 38)

Posted by Jeremy Monnet on 08/04/05 11:41 AM

Malte, I do forgive you, and I hope you will forgive me too ! 😉

I did not expect you people to put your things in the cvs and modify what you wanted (each on your side, without knowing if someone else is doing it also : we call that communication. 3 or 4 persons on the same files : problems.).

I thought that I would do some stuff (maybe not the better, but I asked questions for which I have very few answers (thanks Andrew and myself). Then when the thing would be good enough (near version 1.0,or about) it would be september, and time for me to leave (unfortunately) Australia and the dotLRN.
I thought you would drive me to the bright side, by giving me advice, and not doing things instead of me.

I am not saying I am the best, and I am not saying your job is bad, and in general I am not saying anything bad about you and the dotLRN community in general.

I just say that the 2 first remarks and the last one may not make sense for a development and learning (I am learning) package. You probably noticed that it has moved from a service to an application : because a service (as far as I know, please correct me otherwise) is not mounted, and so I would have accessed the courses page through a long path. I am not sure you can update from a service to an application ?

And I say that I didn't know that I could achieve the url active in one line. I knew I did it wrong, but I hoped you would have given me a better way ...

BTW, you didn't answer (or give a link to the documentation) for my question about the paramters in the .info file. Although I am pretty sure you know perfectly well the answer ... 😉

For the community problem, 2 things :
- Yes, it is impossible now. This is part of the lots of questions I asked along this (very long) thread. I wanted to do something dynamic (like the navbar) but it seems it is not possible to do it the same way (portal problem). So I did it the way I could imagine (static links). It is not impossible at all to add a link, but I agree this is a very bad solution.
- I am planning to add in the next days a css selection, so as to change the color (as it is done now) when you enter a community.

Now, I am going to spend the next hours reading source code to learn .... 😟

40: Re: Re: New package Selva (response to 38)

Posted by Jeremy Monnet on 08/04/05 12:41 PM

Hi it's me again ! 😊

So I looked at the cvs code, and I have some remarks/questions :
- http://jmonnet80.free.fr/Selva/problems/ : I don't have the names I18n ("MISSING KEY"), did I miss something ?
- Are we supposed to put everything we don't know what to do with in the apm_parameters ?
- Why are most of the tabs written manually, and only 1 taken from the DB ? (I do understand for the community tab)
- Won't you prefer to say "you're in that community" a big red blinking text "this community", instead of a tab ? I mean, when I see a road sign "Munich 200 km" I think I'm not in Munich ... When I see a tab "community something", I think I should click on it to go there ?
- Why do you want to stay with the top blue bar ? The tabs should give a clever way to navigate through the site (at least, we do it for that).
- You don't like the blue .LRN logo ? Is it because it take some space on top of the page ? So I think you'll like even less the top picture I've put in the last package. (this is a test, Rafael thinks it is a great design idea)

Maybe you already discussed some of these points, but I have seen no explanation so far, so I ask ! 😉

Jeremy

41: Re: Re: Re: New package Selva (response to 40)

Posted by Jeremy Monnet on 08/04/05 01:18 PM

Some other points :
- I see a "navbar_list" variable, which is never used anywhere else in the code. Is it normal ? Is is just we will need it in the future ?
- Why did you write a "log in" tab while this code will never be executed when the user is logged out (except if there are more state than logged in and out for a user ?)
- Why do you remove the menu bar when the user is not in the dotlrn anymore ? My understanding is that you want to make the difference between OACS (system admin only) and .LRN (software admin and use), am I right ? if so, I think it is a bad idea. The software is already far too complicated, and say to people "you are using two softwares, and you must be aware of it" is not a way to do. As I already said (even if it may be complicated for developpers (you), an effort should be made IMHO to simplify the administration. Of course, this is just a way to start a debate 😊

Jeremy

43: Re: Re: Re: New package Selva (response to 39)

Posted by Malte Sussdorff on 08/04/05 01:39 PM

It was clearly stated that the package was put into CVS (https://openacs.org/forums/message-view?message_id=308673). All communication what has happened has been done through this forum posting. So I'd not say we did not communicate.

Reason for me to do the things are plain and simple: Client needs. Your design was the best thing around for the client, so we took it and improved it everywhere. But instead of forking we tried to bring everything back.

47: Re: Re: Re: Re: New package Selva (response to 43)

Posted by Jeremy Monnet on 08/05/05 02:33 AM

When I said there was a lack a communication, it was regarding to the fact that you need to re-commit the code because where are now 3 wotking at the same time on the very same files. I have seen nowhere a posting "stop working guys ! I'm doing some stuff on file.tcl, file.xql and file.info", which is what I'm used to in every others communities ... 😟 I assume you have a different way of communicating, but as long as you need to commit the same code several times, I also assume you can improve this way ...

Anyway, I would like to stop trolling now (and stop sarcasm by the way 😉 ) and concentrate on technical issues, if you don't mind ?