Forum OpenACS Development: Apache now has nsv like support, tcl
rarman: um, nothing wrong with aolserver, but it's stupid to claim superiority to apache on those grounds rarman yes but it makes no sense to send an external request to the server - so a 500 error is actually more appropriate and accurate rarman Trisk: explain, without accusing me of being stupid, pls :) Triskelios rarman: that request is a perfectly valid filename if it didn't have http:// rarman Trisk: it did rarman ...have http:// Triskelios rarman: oh, ok Triskelios rarman: apache generally has more modules written for it than anything else, and has a decent track record for security rarman Trisk: so was it a port scan I should be worried about, or is it innocent? spike it's still wrong if one wants to be pricky :P spike return code should been 501, as the proxy service isnt implemented Triskelios true rarman Trisk: agreed that's true - but it's load handling and wide use make it fast but ill-suited for very large sites and ideal security spike but everybody just throws 500 these days rarman Trisk: and there are many many many aolserver modules rarman spike: interesting spike rarman: you should be as worried about it as for any other portscan: not at all Triskelios rarman: um, there's good load-balancing setups for apache spike expecially for such scans, they are simply looking for a server to anonymously look at pr0n or post on l4m3r2 forums, or stuff like that Triskelios rarman: I'm 4 doors down from the lab that wrote mod_vhand spike Triskelios: can I come visiting? :P rarman Trisk: cool Triskelios rarman: security is lenient, but in general that's unfortunately how scripts expect things to be. partially securing the OS helps rarman Trisk: can apache cache a large directory structure for quick retrieval -is it threadsafe with php5? can it share vars across sessions and threads? rarman Trisk: say no to aolserver fud --> https://openacs.org/about/what-is-openacs spike have u got a tshirt with that on? ;D rarman Trisk: does apache support Tcl? spike "Say no to aolserver fud" spike eheh rarman ;) spike goes checking cafeexpress Triskelios s/vhand/backhand/ up there Triskelios but there are apache modules for content caching (both static and dynamic) Triskelios not sure about threading behaviour with php spike not sure about hreading behaviour *of* php ;) Triskelios oi Triskelios looks like php is thread-safe, but uses libraries that aren't and doesn't try to deal with that. fun Triskelios hm, and tcl.apache.org rarman trisk: I was unaware... rarman trisk: interesting... how good is apache with a site with 1000 folders? rarman 10,000 files, and a large postgres/oracle db? Triskelios rarman: just fine. we have more like 100,000 Triskelios we have postgres and mysql for various things spike *ding* spike that's the magic word for today spike postgres :) rarman sounds like apache is more powerful since I last checked ;) spike Triskelios: u won a question :) rarman spike: heh Triskelios we've been running apache for 6 or 7 years spike I'm about to give you ur prize... hang on rarman Trisk: I'll have to bring this abck to the OpenACS community... maybe we could pull off an apache port of our portal toolkit rarman that would be very cool Triskelios *shrugs*
- Performance of the TCL support in Apache
- Porting of all ns_* functions into a mod_ns
-- Alternatively rewrite the whole acs wrapper procedures to use whatever Apache offers natively.
- Make sure that the DB drivers for Oracle and PostgreSQL offer bind support and behave equally to the toolkit.
What is to gain:
- We run on Apache *if* a couple of Modules are installed.
- The gain is not worth the effort.
Note: This is no judgement on Apache vs. AOLserver. I'm just pointing out the costs and the (IMHO) low gains.
Tired of dealing with FUD when I mention AOLServer...
But don't get too excited -- there's lots of things that don't quite work, 80/20 rule etc. I got many pages/api calls working pretty quickly (including most ns_* and nsv procs) across many platforms (tclhttpd/iis/tclsh/apache1.3x+2.x), but then got majorly bogged down with the details and abandoned the effort.
Ultimately I think Malte's right... but it's fun to dream.
If Apache has lately added features to make it more AOLserver-like and/or otherwise make it more powerful and easier to support OpenACS on Apache, that would be interesting, and I'd like to know about it. But unfortunately I didn't learn much of anything about that from the IRC snippet above.
I thought it might be interesting, since I wasn't aware that apache had those features, and Triskelios informed me of them.
Just wanted to bring it to the community as a request for comment.
Feel free to delete the post if there's some issue of relevancy.
Those random statements on IRC like, "there are apache modules for content caching" and "not sure about threading behaviour with php" are not useful information, because: One, the statements themselves sound fairly clueless, they make me suspect the speaker may not actually know much. Two, AFAICT those statements certainly have nothing at all to do with NSV-like support. (Hint: "NSV" stands for "NaviServer Shared Variables", not "Content Caching".) Three, exacerbating both of the previous points, I've never heard of the speakers, don't even know their real names, and have no external reason to assume that they have any real idea of what they're talking about in the first place.