Forum OpenACS Development: Main site parties

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1: Main site parties
Posted by xx xx on 07/23/02 02:12 AM
I installed OpenACS (4.5; june 2002; PG) and I noticed:
  1. 'main site parties' is not mentioned under application groups on the admin/groups page
  2. Registered Users are not members of the 'main site parties'
  3. 'application_group' does not appear in the group_types table

I wonder whether there is something wrong with my installation or for some reason 'main site parties' is not meant to be an ordinary application_group' (I presume 'main site parties' is automatically generated by subsite::configure).

I can add 'main site parties' on the admin/groups page
by adding '( ..... OR m.container_id = g.group_id)' after m.element_id = g.group_id in the groups_list_postgresql.xql file.
But what is the best way to (automatically) add all Registered Users to 'main site parties'?
It seems I need this to add members in other application-groups.

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2: Response to Main site parties (response to 1)
Posted by Don Baccus on 07/23/02 03:22 AM
This area's incomplete, in fact it's more or less ignored.  Unless you actually need active subsites with different membership groups you can ignore it, too.  If you need something like this dotLRN has greatly enhanced group admin facilities and might be a better place to start, though it involves dragging in a bunch of other stuff.
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3: Response to Main site parties (response to 1)
Posted by xx xx on 07/23/02 09:20 PM
Thanks, that's important information. Now I need to decide, because I do need 'active subsites with different membership groups'.

However, with dotLRN being brought up, I would like to know which way OpenACS is floating?
Judging from the answer, Ben's position and the enthusiasm with which dotLRN has been embraced by the active community, I could guess that OpenACS might be adopting the dotLRN kernel-core after all packages have been ported. Then, with dotLRN being the Office-like 'suite of packages' for the teaching-school community, I can envision OpenACS to be the mother from which all (other) communities evolve. But how do insiders picture the future relation between dotLRN and OpenACS, before I hop on the dotLRN train?
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4: Response to Main site parties (response to 1)
Posted by Reuven Lerner on 07/24/02 01:29 PM
I just wanted to chime in here and say that as far as I can tell, the entire groups API under OpenACS 4 is a mess.  Maybe it's just me, and maybe it's the documentation, but I've spent a lot of time over the last month trying to figure out how to create groups, assign users to groups, and create various relationships -- and every time I think that I've figured out what's happening, I discover a new problem.

Don't get me wrong: I think that the theory behind composition vs. membership relations is a brilliant one, and it could be that I just require a bit more documentation to know what's happening.  But if the dotLRN team is working on a new system for working with groups, this will be a big step forward for the usability of OpenACS.

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5: Response to Main site parties (response to 1)
Posted by Lars Pind on 07/24/02 01:34 PM
Reuven,

Totally agreed. I don't normally consider myself stupid, but I've had serious doubts every time I've played with the groups UI. It blows.

/Lars

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6: Response to Main site parties (response to 1)
Posted by Ben Koot on 08/08/02 10:34 AM
Would it be an idea to have a working demo on the site of the groups concept, so we see what the deeper meaning of the new format is, in a less abstract way as described here.  http://217.120.34.79:8000/doc/parties.html
Thanks
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7: Response to Main site parties (response to 1)
Posted by Jade Rubick on 08/08/02 06:22 PM
Ben, that's a great contribution. Does that describe the system
as it is right now? If so, that should be included in the
documenation -- absolutely essential.
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8: Response to Main site parties (response to 1)
Posted by Raad Al-Rawi on 09/05/02 02:51 PM
Hi All - This one's a hot topic for me as I'm trying to set up this sort of thing on my OpenACS+dotLRN site at the moment.

The objective is to provide an environment where people can join communities (containing features such as news, faq, forums etc.), some of which are public (don't need approval), and some private (need approval).

The idea is to use OpenACS for the publicly available areas, and dotLRN for the private ones.
Obviously dotLRN provides private community-based functionality and fits the bill nicely, but setting something up at the OpenACS level is a complete mystery! I would like to have read the 'parties' doc by Ben Koot, but couldn't access it, and it seems (from the posts) that this area is actually somewhat obscure.

Could anyone provide me with some details (post something or point me in the right direction) as I'd really appreciate a better understanding of this.

Thanks.
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9: Response to Main site parties (response to 1)
Posted by Ben Koot on 09/05/02 03:20 PM
Jade and Raad, It is part of the standard ACS 4 documentation, Parties Sory for using the URL connecting you to my own test instance. Ben
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10: Response to Main site parties (response to 1)
Posted by Raad Al-Rawi on 09/06/02 01:37 PM
Thanks Ben - That all seems to be pretty much as I expected.

Would I be correct in saying that the OpenACS UI does not support setting up the equivalent of a dotLRN 'Community', i.e. a number of packages linked to a group/party via membership relationships and overlaid with permissions (excuse my v. simplistic description)?
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11: Response to Main site parties (response to 1)
Posted by Don Baccus on 09/06/02 06:20 PM
Yes, that's true.