Forum OpenACS Development: Re: Ideas for easier installation of OpenACS

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Posted by Tom Jackson on
Dave,

I'm not sure I understand what you said here. I think you said that using the VMWare install is okay for most purposes, not just testing. My experience today can't dispute that. It was relatively easy to install VMWare and the Linux.vmw is just a click to start. The documentation actually had more warnings (about the ip address, etc.) than what seemed necessary.

How difficult is it to produce these virtual installations? The one I loaded was over a year old, but it shouldn't be difficult to build this with a simple script unless the VMWare folks complicate things.

In some ways the VMWare approach is what I would suggest for OpenACS, that is an installation which is not global. I wish we had more descriptions from users that cover this area.

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Posted by Stefan Sobernig on
Tom,

How difficult is it to produce these virtual installations?

I refer to my experiences in creating http://media.wu-wien.ac.at/download/vdotlrn. The difficulty is well limited, as you have options at hand:

  • Create your own guest os appliance? The overall time factor is negligable, last time I did it, it was an effort of 30+ minutes. Of course, it depends, as you might consider some tweakings that should help keeping the disk footprint of the vbox as small as possible. Tweakings include:
    • Special-purpose *nix distributions: Conservative approaches are bare-bone or server installations of recent distributions (Ubuntu server is 300mb+ unpacked). Once, I also used the Debian mini flavour which reduces storage needs to 100mb+). Lately, I came across JeOS, an Ubuntu flavour, that includes some kernel (and footprint) optimisations for the use as guest os. I don't have any experiences on the latter, but it might be worth a try (especially as they are optimised for the use in vmware environments).
    • Manual clean-up after the vbox has been populated: Clear for temporary and cached data, installation and source files etc. One might also go for the manual removal of unneeded distribution elements.
    • Archiving the entire vbox for delivery: Using 7z, I managed to reduce one of my Ubuntu/OACS vboxes to ~68mb (~500mb unpacked). This gives a quite impressive compression ratio ... (and makes even unoptimised vboxes suitable for delivery)
  • Take a ready-made gues-os "appliance" and built on that: some examples are available from http://www.vmware.com/appliances/.

The installation of OACS/.LRN is not that an issue, time needs correpond to an ordinary installation. With the help of Malte's installation scripts (which could be tweaked a bit) it usually takes me another 30min+ on my machine to populate my vbox. After having done so, I came up with some extras which should turn the OACS/.LRN environment (and non-*nix users):

  • Some pre-configured samba shares (e.g. packages directory of OACS, home dir etc.)
  • A basic shell script to localise the vbox (keyboard settings, region and language, ...) in a guided manner

Overall, once the basic environment is established, tweaks are figured out, the efforts needed are really limited for the somewhat experienced OACS/.LRN geek to come up with up-to-date releases.

[...] but it shouldn't be difficult to build this with a simple script unless the VMWare folks complicate things.

to the best of my knowledge, there is no scripting environment for production/deployment of vboxes availabe (i.e. in the sense of the vmware authoring environments). this does not mean that the overall effort can not be substantially automated but not beyond what is done by e.g. Malte's script suite, I fear ... some remains handicraft.

Btw., you find a pointer to create your own images without any vmware authoring environment (as the server console, workstation etc.) at http://media.wu-wien.ac.at/download/vdotlrn.

Hope I could shed some light on the perceived complexity ...

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Posted by Tom Jackson on
Can these vboxes run without a console? That is something I didn't think about until you mentioned the keyboard. I noticed that it grabs the pointing device and keyboard.

Seems pretty cool, even better if someone already has VMWare installed.

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Posted by Stefan Sobernig on
Can these vboxes run without a console?

Yep, just get a local installation of the vmware server which will be the "ghost" run time environment for your images. The role of the admin ui (which is a tty terminal to the vbox) , as taken by the VMWARE player, is then played by the VMWare server console. You, then, can arbitrarily attach to and detach from vboxes. The vmware player is admin console and rte in one. The rte will take care of running vboxes whenever your host system fires up or the other way around. It comes with some advanced features and is definitely the way to go in your case ...

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Posted by Vic May on
Are you talking about the same thing here? "vbox" is a VirtuBox term http://virtualbox.org/ , not to be confused with "virtual machine" of vmware http://www.vmware.com .
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Posted by Vic May on
I meant "VirtualBox"
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Posted by Stefan Sobernig on
Vic,

vbox is just my personal flavour of referring to "virtual machine" in general (without any links to concrete products). But everything said above applies to the virtual machine/vbox I realised for the VMware line of products (and not virtualbox as product and brand) ...

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Posted by Vic May on
Stefan,

I just installed vdotlrn and like it a lot because of it clean interface, no errors so far and I like the "Profiling Information" on each page. That helps to learn how it all works. The only shortcoming is the the installation is outdated. How difficult is it to update it to the latest version?

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Posted by Stefan Sobernig on
Vic

How difficult is it to update it to the latest version?

I assume you mean how to difficult/ time-consuming would it be for me to update the vbox to the most recent release. in fact, I've already started to provide a new one (and somehow promised it to chris douce, see above). I've just finished giving my last lecture today, so there will be some time to round it up at the beginning of next week. Expect it around tuesday ...