Forum OpenACS Q&A: ArsDigita Gives Open Source A Try

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Posted by Chris Hardy on
I was crusing through LWN.net and saw this link.. Just thought you might all be interested... http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/stories/news/0,4164,2701154,00.html
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Posted by Stephen van Egmond on
"The move is an unusual one for a private Java company."?Hello?
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Posted by Michael A. Cleverly on
I imagine that aD's marketing department is in seventh heaven having been labeled a "Java Company."  That's one of the highest forms of praise, after all, in comparison to the pejorative label of being a "Tcl Company."
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Posted by Malachi Kenney on

Sure the Interactive Week (referenced) and Venturewire coverage were depressing at best, but these were obviously the rehashing of the original press release by uncaring, brain dead, copy writing interns who couldn't care less about yet another piddling press release from yet another small web... err, Enterprise Software Development... consultancy. The eWeek coverage obviously had slightly more fact checking behind it. Of course, the fact that the press release itself was one of the standard, badly written pieces of baby-talk that every evil (or wannabe-evil) corporation dishes out by the ream didn't help. There was no indication in that release that Interactive Week (or Venturewire) could have used to give different information.

Of course, this dreary piece of marketing pablum from some anonymous flack inside the bowels of ArsDigita is, in itself, depressing. It is one more symptom of the changes that seem to have shaken that company in the last year. The fact that aD can release something without a name attatched to it is horribly depressing and gives even the least attentive outsider a picture of a new corporate culture. However, none of this affects the software on which OpenACS is currently focusing, nor is it likely to have any short term effects on that software. Just because you can't click on a link from the aD main page for fear of hitting something idiotic and depressing does not mean that either the toolkit or the company have gone to hell just yet.

A far more depressing sign of increasing corporate evil on the part of ArsDigita is this here Help Wanted ad. Whatever happened to using software that works, guys? Or is that just my knee-jerk prejudice against overpriced and badly designed software talking again?

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Posted by guido van driel on
Re: Malachi, help wanted ad on arsdigita.

Ooef, if ever there was a piece of crapware it would be Msexchange.

Does exchange even exist longer than 5 years? aD seems to be moving towards the darkside more and more.

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Posted by Dennis Gregorovic on
"Use the right tool for the job." ArsDigita has always used standard unix IMAP and POP mail servers. These work well for the developers here, and the developers will continue to use them. If the business folk start using Exchange Server, it will be because they need the specific features (calendaring, scheduling, etc) that it provides.
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Posted by Aaron Turner on
Impressive list of adjectives; what exactly makes the press release "uncaring", "brain dead", "badly written", "wannabe-evil", and a "dreary release of marketing pablum"?  What exactly is bad about getting press coverage and having more people hear about the ACS, other than the lack of mention of openacs.org?
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Posted by Stephen van Egmond on
How you view it depends on you view aD, or how long you've been watching it. I agree with Malachi's assessment of aD's release as a dreary, voiceless "marketing message", tarted up in the style of a news article with press-style quotes from CEO. Puh-lease.

I don't mind if aD gets attention. Good for them. Too bad it had to be this way. Of course, this is nothing new: aD's press release list is long, and gets increasingly boring as you get further into 2000. They refer to themselves as the leaders of this or that, or "a leading provider" of that and the other thing. It is (a) false and (b) off-putting to people who know better. As soon as someone uses a word like that I tune them out.

Others have said it better than I can here, but a company without a voice just isn't an interesting company.

These ideas are explained and developed further in the Cluetrain Mainfesto. Avoid the content-free web site (cluetrain.com), and read the book.

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Posted by Talli Somekh on
Once upon a time, it seemed that aD built it's own tools so that the problems they had were solved right, rather than spend a lot of money on tools with very dubious records.  It seems to me that if the business folks at aD want to use Exchange for calendaring, scheduling, etc. (problems that I was under the impression the ACS was built to solve) then there isn't a whole lot of faith in those tools.

I really don't feel too religious either way when it comes to TCL vs. Java.  I am not a programmer so I haven't invested a whole lot of time developing expertise in specific programming styles.  However, I do use the system and evangelize it quite a bit.  So to see that the people who are ostensibly the gatekeepers reject their own product in favor of something that is direct competitor (materially and philosophically), then I really have to say I disagree with you Dennis.

Why wouldn't the business folks just use the ACS for calendaring, scheduling, etc.  Or is it because aD doesn't do that stuff anymore?

tal

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Posted by Dennis Gregorovic on
Hi Talli,

Those are good questions.  Rest assured, aD does still build its own tools with ACS and use them extensively.  WimpyPoint, Intranet, ACS Repository, Room Reservations, etc.  However, to *only* use internal tools would be a classic example of 'Not Invented Here' syndrome.  Not being involved with the Exchange Server discussions, I can't comment about that particular case, but yes, we do have faith in ACS.

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Posted by Mark Ciccarello on
Not Invented Here Syndrome isn't a bad approach.  It's certainly the one the leading enterprise software vendors (MS, Oracle, etc) use.