Forum OpenACS Q&A: GreatBridge WebSuite -- Why no OpenACS?

Hey guys,

GreatBridge recently released a developer's toolkit called Websuite (http://www.greatbridge.com/about/press.php?content_id=68). It purports to give the PG developer all the tools needed to rapidly build enterprise management tools. However, conspicuously absent is OpenACS.

Anybody know if GB considered OpenACS and if so why they went against it (other than the usual arguements)? Is there a chance that in future releases OpenACS may be included?

talli

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Posted by Don Baccus on
Well, this isn't really an OpenACS (or Zope or name-your-suite-of-packages-and-tools) type thing at all.

It's more like bundling AOLserver (which include Tcl), PG, a graphical
installer, an HTML editor, etc.

Everything you need to reinvent OpenACS, in other words.

I haven't talked to GreatBridge since Ned Lilly left, though I'm on their replication mailing list (think PG 7.2).  I suspect they'll find
us a lot less interesting now that we're supporting Oracle and later other dbs including Open Source competitors to PG.

Great Bridge WebSuite includes: 
*	Great Bridge PostgreSQL 7.1.2, the world's most advanced 
open source database; 
*	Apache 1.3.19, the industry leading Web server; 
*	PHP 4.0.4, a server-side scripting language for creating 
dynamic web pages; 
*	Apache modules, including PHP, Perl, Python, Tcl, and Java; 
*	XML modules, including Cocoon, Xerces, and SOAP; 
*	Bandwidth management and security authentication modules; 
*	Administration tools suite featuring Webmin, PgAccess, and 
phpPgAdmin; 
*	Bluefish, an advanced HTML editor for web designers and 
programmers; 
*	GreatBridge.org, a web-based project management tool.
they are charging $2500 for that!

The shady businessman lurking inside me thinks that is pretty cool. I wonder however, are there any licensing problems with that software that would make that illegal? Or is it essentially the same thing GNU did back in the day when they sold all the gnu tools on whatever media to universities or large organizations? (the difference being the guys at GNU actually _wrote_ the free software they were selling...).

the real question i guess. Is anyone actually going to BUY this? It seems like it would be much more cost efficient to pay some high school student $200 (or $50) to download and install all that software. I suppose that the greatbridge people would argue that "you are paying for support." But...the marketing blurb seems to imply that you only get 30 days of support! and...it sure doesn't sound like on-site support. I'm pretty sure you could get any laid off dot-com employee to do this job for $2500 for one month. (not to mention you could get a high-school student to do it (better) for 1/3 that).

I ask this because, programming is fun (uh...sometimes) but who REALLY wants to work for a living? I'm looking forward to the day when I can start my shady business reselling openACS CDROMs for $50000 a pop and spend the rest of my time racing my NSX, hot-air ballooning around the world, and appearing on MSNBC panels about "network computing" with a weird looking beard and bad tanning-salon tan. All I need to do is figure out who the suckers are that actually PAY these large sums for free software burned to CDRoms...

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Posted by Michael Serio on
How do open source companies make money?

The recent trend appears to be an installation tool and bundled software, limited support and lots of marketing hype (as in Red Hat Database for $2295) While it's encouraging that Red Hat has 'given credibility' to Postgres, it's unfortunate that neither Red Hat nor Greatbridge offer support for openACS since it is superior to their offerings and getting backing would help the cause - aD abandoning the TCL version certainly doesn't help! It still remains a well-kept secret for those who have stumbled upon it. Some high-profile websites w/PR might make a difference...

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Posted by Adam Farkas on
Guys -- I don't think you'll ever see a company support OpenACS at that low price-point.

Bundles like the ones that RH and GB provide support cookie-cutter packages. They help with installation, and "support" is usually limited to something like "postmaster dropped dead, how do I get back on my feet again?" or "Apache and PHP can't speak to one another -- what do I do?"

No company wants the hassle of supporting a mess of custom code that toolkits like OpenACS allow people to build. Not at these prices, anyway.

I doubt you'll ever see any company "supporting" OpenACS for anything less than a kilobuck a month. And even then, i'm sure they'd put strict boundries on what they will and will not cover (How much would you, as an OpenACS expert, charge to diagnose someone's mess of Tcl?)