Forum OpenACS Development: ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP

Collapse
1: ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP
Posted by Gilbert Price on 08/21/02 03:22 AM
Since the CMS is rather imposing for new guys and I are one. I'm
finding ETP to be very beneficial, I'm trying to determine now what
the best course of action is, ETP2 is nearing release, will it break
or enhance the current ETP?

IOW, is there a painless (relative) upgrade path. How does modETP fit
into the mix? Will it be possible to migrate current content into
modETP and then to ETP2?

Thanks,

Collapse
2: Response to ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Dave Bauer on 08/21/02 03:27 AM
ETP2 has no official schedule right now. I would like to work on it later this month.

That said, there will be an upgrade path from ETP to ETP2. I don't know how tricky it will be, but I think we have to do it, because I will want to upgrade the new openacs.org to ETP2 when it is available.

Collapse
3: Response to ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Jun Yamog on 08/21/02 04:55 AM
Hi Gilbert,

modETP is a modification of ETP1.0 without upgrade scripts.  I don't actively maintain it anymore although some parts will be moved to ETP2.  ETP2 is the real successor.  modETP was a wack a code solution for a marketing/sales need.  Although modETP was good enough to be used for some production or soon to be production sites.

If you have time I would encourage you to help out Dave for ETP2 as I am unable to.  DaveB is alone on this one as I think Luke P is also busy.

Collapse
4: Response to ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Gilbert Price on 08/21/02 12:45 PM
Thanks Dave and Jun,

You've cleared up the waters some on the "ETP family". I'd be glad to help in any way I can, but I must warn you that I'm not a coder, I have been successful, though somewhat limited, with coding .php mods in some scripts we use at work. I'm actually a sysadmin whose gotten one departmental manager to agree to my Intranet Web Experiment.

Other departments are now wanting their services, hence the interest in ETP or CMS whichever will allow assignment of departmental admins to control the content for their piece of the server, without having access to all admin functions.

Thanks for the responses, and Dave, if their is anything I can do, let me know...

Collapse
5: Response to ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Don Baccus on 08/21/02 03:24 PM
You could help by signing up to test ETP for the 4.6 release ... and ETP2 for the 4.7 release ...
Collapse
6: Response to ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Gilbert Price on 08/21/02 07:20 PM
Excellent Idea Don,

I just sent a message to Simon volunteering to test ETP now and into the forseeable future, also volunteered to be a tester for bug-tracker, tickets, and anything to do with the CMS and templating.

Thanks,

Collapse
7: Response to ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Janine Ohmer on 08/22/02 05:34 PM
Along the same lines as the original question...

I have a need for a simple CMS where I can set up simple templates that indicate where blocks of text and images are to go, then allow the site admin to upload their text and images.  It doesn't have to be easy to specify the templates, since I'll be doing that, but it does have to be easy from the user's point of view.

ETP doesn't seem to do this;  it just lets me upload one block of text per page.  Do any of the others?  Or am I missing some feature of ETP?

Collapse
8: Response to ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by defunct defunct on 08/22/02 05:39 PM
You could do that more simply by specifying your templates as adp pages
and then make sure your content is actually stored in the CR.

Inthis way you just need a simple TCL page that extracts the latest live revision...

Collapse
9: Response to ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Janine Ohmer on 08/22/02 05:44 PM
Thanks, Simon - that's an interesting idea.  I thought I needed something a little more complicated, but now that you mention it that would probably do the trick nicely.

I still would like to see a short-and-sweet description of how ETP, ETP2, modETP and CMS differ, if there is anyone out there who has tried them all?

Collapse
10: Response to ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Dave Bauer on 08/22/02 05:59 PM
Janine, look at dev.openacs.org. Is this what you want? All the content except new postings is ETP content.

The code that was written to handle this is very nice. There is an includable ADP that grabs content from the various ETP sections.

modETP is mostly an improved UI to ETP1. ETP2 is planned to also have an improved interface, and improve the way it interfaces with the content repository, and make it more flexible in adding new content types.

Collapse
11: Response to ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Janine Ohmer on 08/22/02 06:29 PM
Hi Dave,

It's hard to tell by looking if dev.openacs.org does what I need or not.  Let me try to describe it better.  This is my ideal setup; I'm fairly sure nothing like this exists today (except maybe CMS which isn't working on PG as of last night's checkout), so don't think I expect to get exactly this.  I just need to know how close I can come to perfection. :)

Site admin is ready to post some content to a couple of pages.  He goes to the CMS admin page, where he chooses the first page he wishes to update.  He is presented with a page that lets him upload 2 images and 3 blocks of text.  The system knows, because I have set it up this way, that this particular page requires (or allows) those particular pieces.  He hits a Preview button, likes what he sees, and submits the new page.  Page is now live.

He then goes back to the CMS admin page, where he chooses another page to update.  This one is 1 image and 2 blocks of text.  Etc, etc

So I need an admin interface that lets me create a page, telling it what ADP to use and what content blocks that page requires.  Then I need another admin interface that lets the user upload content as above.

I understand what you're saying about having an ADP that pulls from various ETP sections, but I don't think it's going to do enough to simplify uploading of new content, especially images.  Or am I wrong about that?

Collapse
12: Response to ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Dave Bauer on 08/22/02 06:45 PM
Janine,

I see. ETP2 will allow this. It lets/requires you to create admin pages to handle each content type. So you could create a 1 article/2 image type. That is nice, but I don't know of a solution that allows easy upload and management of images. This is something I am very interested in also.

Collapse
13: Response to ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Janine Ohmer on 08/22/02 07:02 PM
What I would like to do is store the images on disk, and have the filenames be stuffed into the page template along with the content blocks.  This seems like it would be easier than putting the image into the database, and I have a personal bias against storing files in the database anyway.  Dumps are large enough as it is.

We should probably take this offline, but maybe I can help you with ETP2?  How far along is it?

Collapse
14: Response to ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Jun Yamog on 08/22/02 07:05 PM
Hi Janine,

modETP is able to handle binary files including image.  You can see the older ver at http://demo.infiniteinfo.com user mailto:demo@infiniteinfo.com password demo

I have also added the ability to choose your template which are basically adp pages.  The most recent updated ver is at http://www.infiniteinfo.com/openacs/modetp.tgz which includes a better wysiwyg stuff.  Plus some refinements.  modETP changes the admin, ability to upload binary content, ability to pick a version rather than rollback, etc.  modETP code as I have said several times is very bad.  But we have rolled out a couple of production sites with it.

I think the only person who is able to understand CMS is DanW.  I am studying this right now and doing some project based on CR.  So far I think its a hidden treasure of OpenACS.

I hope DaveB gets some help on ETP2, although after studying CR and implementing a project on it.  I think some of the ETP, modETP or ETP2 concepts should be looked at again.

I hope this helps.

Collapse
15: Response to ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Janine Ohmer on 08/22/02 07:28 PM
Jun, I just took a quick look at the demo - very impressive!

Dave, I am willing to help with ETP2 - just let me know what needs doing.  But not until after I get the 4.6 release page done! :)

Collapse
16: Response to ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Talli Somekh on 08/22/02 07:29 PM
Woo hoo!!! Janine's workin' on ETP2! Booya!

We should be able to throw some weight to this as well.

talli

Collapse
17: Response to ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Stan Kaufman on 09/12/02 02:43 AM
I just installed OACS 4.5 (finally) and was particularly interested in how ETP handles embedded images in pages. This thread helps explain the status of things.

For what it's worth, I put together a 3.2.5 module that does a number of the ETP functions, but in particular uses some ideas and code from the Musea content management system for handling images in the text. It organizes pages into topics, scopes to groups or site-wide deployment, and lets authors control various other aspects of the page (but doesn't do revision control like ETP does). I've enabled the module in the Bay Area OACS User Group area; if you're interested go to http://www.epimetrics.com, register (Talli, you've already done that, long ago), add yourself to that group, and have a look. I've given regular group members page editing permissions so you'll have access to all the editing/admin pages for the group.

I'd offer to port this across to 4.5 but that seems superfluous given all the great work in ETP. Ah well, I hope to be able to give back to the community with 4.5 development soon, now that various 3.2.5 projects have stabilized.

Collapse
18: Response to ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Dave Bauer on 09/12/02 03:55 AM
Stan,

I have signed up and joined the group. Is there anything else I need to do?

Would it be possible to get a look at the code? I really would like to make it easy to add images to ETP 2.

Collapse
19: Response to ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Stan Kaufman on 09/12/02 04:14 AM
Dave, did you look at the UI for creating topics and pages, and managing images? It's in the Topics section you see on the group's main page (think I forgot to mention that). Nothing specific you need to do other than follow the admin links at the bottom of the various pages and have at it.

The code for images is mostly from the Musea example, though I wrote some stuff that parses the page as it's delivered and substitutes the real image tags for the pseudo tags page authors use. I'd be happy to bundle the whole module together if there's interest; I just assumed that it would need to be ported to v4x first.

Collapse
20: Response to ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Dave Bauer on 09/12/02 03:58 PM
Stan,

I don't see any admin links, I checkout out the Topics section of that group and the individual pages.

Collapse
21: Response to ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Stan Kaufman on 09/12/02 04:29 PM
Doh. My bad. I'd changed the code that specifies the type of role for self-enrolled members in other sites' code but not my own site (ah the hazards of not using CVS, but that's another topic).

So when you added yourself, you got put in a role without those permissions. Now fixed. I just "became you" and confirmed that you get the admin links now. Sorry.

Collapse
22: Re: ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Andrew Spencer on 01/23/03 12:33 AM
Dave, Jun, Luke, Janine, or anybody: what is the current status of ETP2? I'm working on a project that has many of ETP2's requirements, and would be willing to contribute a substantial amount of effort to ETP2.
Collapse
23: Re: ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Dave Bauer on 01/23/03 01:34 AM
Andrew,

I am working on fixing some bugs and cleaning up ETP 1 to release ETP 1.1 this week for beta testing.

After that we can coordinate on futher work.

Collapse
24: Re: ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Dave Bauer on 01/23/03 01:38 AM
I forget, I will try to create upgrade scripts for ETP that can help to migrate. I will need help testing those.

I am also looking for help working on an oracle version.

Collapse
25: Re: ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Andrew Spencer on 01/23/03 02:46 AM
Thanks for getting the 1.1 beta release ready, Dave. Hopefully we can progress quickly from there to 2.0.
Collapse
26: Re: ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Janine Ohmer on 01/25/03 04:28 PM
Dave, what kind of help do you need with the Oracle version?  I don't have a lot of time available right now, but I'm willing to help if I can fit it in.
Collapse
27: Re: ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Dave Bauer on 01/25/03 04:45 PM
For Oracle, we need someone to go through and synch up with the postgresql version. AFAIK the Oracle version was never working correctly, and I have made some changes to the data model.

So mainly we need someone to make sure the data model and pl/sql procs are aligned with the postgresql versions and working and to test the queries.

Collapse
28: Re: ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Jun Yamog on 01/25/03 06:53 PM
Hi,

I don't think we will ever get ETP ported to Oracle, due to the feature of explicit sorting.  ETP makes use of tree_sortkey for this feature.  I tried to help out Don just hours before 4.5 came out, but to my realization of the fact that it depends on a PG specific data model.

It is now being brought up again.  Since my CMS also needs this feature, its on the thread Dave started here:

https://openacs.org/forums/message-view?message_id=51959

Collapse
29: Re: ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Jun Yamog on 01/25/03 06:56 PM
I meant ETP will be ported to Oracle once this sorting feature is sorted out.

My previous post seem to sound that ETP will never be ported, sorry.

Collapse
30: Re: ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Andrew Piskorski on 01/27/03 05:01 AM
Since when is tree_sortkey Postgres only? I belive Don said OpenForce used it for both the Postgres and Oracle versions of the Forums package, although I haven't looked at the code to check that.
Collapse
31: Re: ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Andrew Piskorski on 01/27/03 05:12 AM
Oh, in the thread Jun gave above, Don and Jun were talking about the sorting needs and the performance implications of the tree_sortkey approach, so by "sorted out" Jun must have meant doing some tests and deciding when it makes sense to use tree_sortkey and when some other approach would be better. And I guess the question is more important for Oracle because Oracle has more alternatives to tree_sortkey (e.g., connect by) than Postgres does.
Collapse
32: Re: ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Jon Griffin on 01/27/03 05:20 AM
Postgres actually does have a connect by add in now. I don't know how efficient it is though.
Collapse
33: Re: ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Janine Ohmer on 01/27/03 05:35 AM
If it was just sync'ing up the two I'd do it, but figuring out the sortkey stuff sounds like a bigger task than I can take on right now.  If someone else wants to take that part, I'll do the boring datamodel changes. :)
Collapse
34: Re: ETP vs ETP2 vs modETP (response to 1)
Posted by Jun Yamog on 01/27/03 09:57 AM
Hopefully before 4.7 we can decide what to use for explicit sorting of CR items.  tree_sortkey was not designed for this use.  Its just that Luke made use of it, and I needed to use something for the client.  So I decided to make use of something has proven to be effective.  Portability to Oracle was 2nd priority for me at that time. Since I intend to have my cms package to be released, explicit sorting of one feature I would need.  And I hope to use what will be available in 4.7.