Forum OpenACS Q&A: Re: Photo album for huge image library?

13: Re: Photo album for huge image library? (response to 1)

Posted by Jun Yamog on 10/20/03 08:01 PM

Hi Keith,

I guess you will have to decide for yourself which one to use. Here is what I can share about minus and plus of CR.

- the documentation is not that good. But today unlike 2 years ago there are some apps already to study and see how they use the CR. You can start on file storage, bug tracker (i think) and CMS. I have a ongoing & unfinished package on contrib (bcms*).

- If you will be developing something near CR like features then might as well help us improve it. Or just use the CR in some other way maybe some weaknesses or bugs may come out.

- portability I believe it not good. There are exports and imports but I think they do not run. I have never used them. Although it is encourage that you can contribute this weakness of CR. This should be a little easy if the structure of your content is file system like (e.g. folders and files).

- search is also poor. But its more of a OACS problem rather than CR. But CR is a little easier since some of the service contract are already implemented. So its like poor but better... weird :)

- permission scalability. Its not really CR but more of the general permission. So an improvement of permission should directly improve CR permission scalability.

- on the start its a bit hard to learn CR but once you are used to it. Things are a little better. Pretty much like what is OACS. On the start is a bit difficult, once you get used to it. Its ok.

I hope this helps you in your decision making.

All,

The above are just my opinion it may not be 100% fact. I would like to avoid to have a useless discussion about I like CR and I don't like CR.

21: Re: Photo album for huge image library? (response to 13)

Posted by Bart Teeuwisse on 10/20/03 09:21 PM

Be careful which packages you study to learn how to use the CR. The current photo package is a good example of how NOT to use the CR.

For example, it abuses the live_revision link between cr_item and cr_revision to hide or publish photos. (And this method is broken to boot!).

Bad examples like this make the lack of good documentation even worse. My guess is that Janine's struggles are in part due to this compounded problem. The photo package isn't the only package that uses the CR incorrectly.

/Bart

22: Re: Photo album for huge image library? (response to 21)

Posted by Randy O'Meara on 10/21/03 02:38 AM

This is yet another CM thread that, when responses are weighed, tends to lean toward the negative. There are others hidden about in these forums.

I've watched as folks waded into the oacs CM stream over the last two years. Most, it appears, have been scared away by claims of "DANGEROUS WATERS". I'm just wondering why there is so little effort given to producing concrete examples and guidance that would prove the warnings false. Well, actually, I know why this is the case... the guys (and gals) that have taken the time to dig in and understand (the ones that are qualified to dispel the fears) are very much in demand for these exact skills.

I remember not too long ago when Joel revamped/rewrote the Getting Started tutorial that helped some of the basic oacs pieces fall into place for me. And, I'm sure it has helped countless others as well.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if, as Tom suggested above, there were a simple tutorial (including working code samples) that would help beginning CR users understand the basics? The pifalls? I don't think it would be extremely time consuming for any individual CR expert if each of those knowledgeable of the CR added a small piece to the tutorial.

We do have a CMS forum that's gathering dust. How about a thread in that forum where bits and pieces could be added? If you have coded with the CR, would you post?

If so, just add a message to the thread (https://openacs.org/forums/message-view?message_id=136094) I just created for this purpose!

Now is your opportunity to give a little an receive a lot.

23: Re: Photo album for huge image library? (response to 22)

Posted by Malte Sussdorff on 10/21/03 08:11 AM

Wouldn't it be a good idea for starters to have a page listing all packages currently using the CR, give a recommendation of good vs. bad code, and describe how and why it makes sense to use the CR in this package.

Furthermore, could the supporters write a "Why and when to use the CR" (e.g. by posting in the thread mentioned above), whereas the critics raise their points and provide suggestions on how to improve it.

The CR is a core issue that will haunt us quite some time, if not tackled correctly. We should be able to give clear guidelines when to use the CR and the OCT should come to an agreement at some point, on whether or not to make the use of the CR mandatory for inclusion in the main tree.

Furthermore, there are a lot of ideas already for extending / enhancing acs_objects. I just refer to the acs_named_objects discussion. My question would be, taking into account that there are quite a lot of packages storing content in acs_objects or their own tables, shall we put more functionality to acs_objects to make it available to these packages as well?

A lot of discussion has already happened and I'm pretty sure the old OCT has some ideas on this issue. I'd love to see the new OCT come up with a clear guideline on this and means to encourage people to follow them (and I'm talking carrots here). Randy's effort goes into the right direction, thanks.